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The following was a special interview we conducted in preparation for the Hamilton Fundraiser Event, to test out our interview questions on a friend of HUMANZOO. The interview took place at Jakob and Edward’s apartment in Toronto over a few glasses of wine, and though it was not their intention, Jakob and Edward couldn’t help but get involved with this particular interview, which lasted nearly an hour. Thus it has been separated into four parts.

/ indicates an overlapping of text

… indicates a pause or hesitation.

[NAME] indicates a name mentioned that has been censored for anonymity.

GARRY:
Off the top, I’m just going to get you to describe whatever your current emotional state is.

HUMAN:
Fat and sassy.

GARRY:
Are you a male or female?

HUMAN:
Male.

GARRY:
How many siblings do you have?

HUMAN:
Three. Two. Three including me.

GARRY:
Three Including you okay. So you have two siblings. Are your parents still alive?

HUMAN:
Yes.

GARRY:
Are they still married?

HUMAN:
No.

GARRY:
Do you identify with the idea an eye for an eye?

HUMAN:
Ummm. No. Well indentify…as in..

GARRY:
Does it speak to you, do you believe in it?

HUMAN:
Would I? Do I follow that practise? Eye for an eye?

GARRY:
Do you believe in it.

HUMAN:
Like..I, I believe that it exists but like, do I follow that reasoning? Is that what you mean? Is that what you’re saying? Do I follow that reasoning. Then no, I don’t. I think that people…uhhhm…revenge isn’t the answer. Or uh… justice isn’t, justice isn’t always uh found through, uh, doing what has been done to you or…in any case.

GARRY:
What’s your blood type?

HUMAN:
O… I think its, O…positve I think…not O negative, O negatives the really rare one isn’t it?

GARRY:
What does Normal mean to you?

HUMAN:
Normal to me…Uhhh? Okay, let me just like, just like, throw away the mind and I’ll say normal is… ahhh just being mannerly.

GARRY:
Would you describe yourself as Normal?

HUMAN:
Sometimes.

GARRY:
What is the earliest childhood memory that you have? Or at least the first one that comes to mind.

HUMAN:
Oh my god. I…That’s funny cause memories are uhh, you’re reminded of memories, through like videos and stuff. Uhhh Let me just say this one. I remembered in my kitchen there was like a watering plant uh or a uhhh plant watering device which was like, for hanging plants which you could uh have like a water bottle to squeeze it and it would go up and in… to like the higher hanging plants, and I took that little thing that was like from the water bottles and it was like a bit of a cane and I did like a little vaudeville act…with it.. in my kitchen. And I, that’s like the first thing that came to my mind.

GARRY:
When you were a child, what was your dream profession?

HUMAN:
My uncle always tried to uhh, uhh, encouraged me to be a hockey player..

GARRY:
Was that your dream profession?

HUMAN:
I…. I don’t think I dreamt about professions…when I was a kid. But uh..


The sound of Jakob trying to suppress his laughter can be heard in the background.

But uh when I started dreaming about profession stuff, it was probably… uhh acting. Cause I, that was like, I don’t know I was like thrown on a stage as a young/

JAKOB:
[NAME}, its not neccesarly like, you didn’t have to like, have a dream about it, like you weren’t like a child and you had a dream and you woke up and were like, OHH I want to be that! What did you want to be when you grew up? Is there anything that popped out…was like?

GARRY:
I wanted to be a producer.

HUMAN:
I guess..I just.. an actor I guess, like that’s just what I remembered but you know, like I, you get introduced to stuff? How young do I go back?

GARRY:
Earliest as you can remember.

HUMAN:
Fuck I don’t know..

GARRY:
Still acting..

HUMAN:
Yeah I guess.

GARRY:
And is that your profession now?/

HUMAN:
/Making people laugh.

GARRY:
Ahh.

HUMAN:
I’m not very good at it but..

EDWARD and JAKOB laugh.

GARRY:
Is that your profession now?

HUMAN:
Me? No. I would like to. It would be nice if it was. Now it’s to make people weird-ed out…

GARRY:
When you were a child, I’m going back still/

HUMAN:
/K, yeah yeah.

GARRY:
Um. Would you say that you had a lot of friends…would you describe yourself as having been a popular kid?

HUMAN:
Yeah.

GARRY:
Are you still friends with..with any of the people form your childhood?

HUMAN:
Mhm. Mhm.

GARRY:
Do you think its possible to justify murder?

HUMAN:
….eeeeuhh to justify murder. Sure…yeah you can justify it if you want to. I think you can justify anything.

GARRY:
What scares you most about life?

HUMAN:
Uhh… mmm…shit..these are deep. What scares me most about life? I want to say life itself, but its gotta be more specific..

GARRY:
Does it?

HUMAN:
…I don’t know. …Doing stuff?

EDWARD, JAKOB and GARRY all laugh, then HUMAN starts to laugh a bit too.

Like I’m not scared of death, well I will be once I’m faced it but..

JAKOB:
Are you not faced with it now?

HUMAN:
Faced with death? Hopefully not, shit. …Are you threatening me?

JAKOB:
No no no no, I just mean like in general, death is always possible, you could get hit by/

HUMAN:
/We were born to die.

JAKOB:
/Bus, you know anything could kill you. You say death? Is that/

HUMAN:
But I don’t think about it, I just,/

JAKOB:
/But that’s the first thing you brought up when you, when someone asked you/

HUMAN:
/ Its not death, its fucking something to do with like, I can’t word it. It’s like trying to find your niche or something or trying to, its, its, what,/

JAKOB:
/Finding a purpose.

HUMAN:
I mm, I, I think Its, what’s fears…what I’m most afraid of is… is myyy..self. I think that’s what I’m most afraid of, cause that will ruin my life, I can ruin my own life… and I can ruin other peoples lives…so I just have to be, beware.

GARRY:
…the power you have..

HUMAN:
Not. Okay yeah, everyone has the power to… to, yeah to, yeah, exactly, the power I have to influence my own life and sometimes other peoples lives…but I’m just scared that I…I’m just scared of my own…will. You know.

JAKOB:
What you’re capable of?

HUMAN:
Not what I’m capable of but like..what’s….yeah I guess what I’m capable, I don’t know.

JAKOB:
Mistakes?

HUMAN:
…It’s like I, you know, everyone wants to have a good life right…but, to make a, to have a good life you need to make the right, I guess to make the right choices and…uhh…I’m scared of the, of the… the thing that will keep me down…and that will be myself, because…what else would keep me down? You know, I’m a white male..in this first class country? I have the whole…I have just like, endless possibilities in front of me. So the only that’s gonna stop me is myself… and I fear that, that’s the biggest thing I have to fear…like maybe what…If I commit murder? Shit that’s uh, that’s the worst thing I could do, because that’s gonna fuck me up. I’m not gonna do that though I’m not. I don’t know, maybe, who knows, fuck ,we’ll see what happens…
He laughs.
Woop. Oh woah, its recorded heyyy uh.

GARRY:
If the justification is there?

HUMAN:
Nahh… no. I don’know. I don’t now.

GARRY:
If you were going to write a book, what would it be about?

HUMAN:
Oh.. jesus. It would be…probably really boring.

Everyone laughs uproariously except “HUMAN”

GARRY:
But what, (still laughing) what would it be about?

HUMAN:
…some mundane topic…

Another explosion of laughter.

HUMAN:
Like, what we’re, like me being my own obstacle, like how fucking boring is that?

GARRY:
Mm.

JAKOB:
But that’s not necessarily, that’s, that’s what we were just talking about before, that’s not like… you sat down right now, and you were like/

HUMAN:
I think about that a lot though. So I might actually need to write something.

GARRY:
What your novel is going to be?

HUMAN:
Uhh well

JAKOB:
Some sort of battle with yourself?

HUMAN:
Yeah..it would probably b’ that.

GARRY:
Is that mundane?

HUMAN:
Hopefully not if I, I’m not a good writer though, so probably it would be…if I gave it to a good writer?

GARRY:
Do you have a favourite or lucky number?

HUMAN:
It’s always been three for me.

GARRY:
Do you think that you have control over your own destiny?

HUMAN:
Uhh…somewhat.

GARRY:
Do you believe in.. Destiny?

HUMAN:
I believe in chaos.  …So yeah, the question is do I believe in destiny. No.

GARRY:
Does God exist?

HUMAN:
I can’t say..cause I don’t know but…Yeah I guess that’s my answer, I don’t know.

GARRY:
Does anyone know?

HUMAN:
People like to know, would like to think to know. Does anyone know? Is that what the question was? I’m getting all screwed up.

GARRY:
Do you think that anyone knows.

HUMAN:
No.

GARRY:
Do you believe in god? Or a God?

HUMAN:
…No. Maybe I should though…it would make me… a better person.

GARRY:
Do you believe in an afterlife of any kind?

HUMAN:
No…no.

GARRY:
So life just stops at death?

HUMAN:
Mhm.

GARRY:
Have you ever um, have you ever paid for sex?

HUMAN:
I’ve been thinking about that actually.. recently. I’ve actually been questioning…what that would be like.

GARRY:
Have you been considering it.. seriously?

HUMAN:
Seriously.

GARRY:
So you would pay for it?

HUMAN:
I sat there one day and I was like, I’m fucking horny and I went..what if I just went to Jilly’s? I know. What a bad place to go but I…it was like I just wanted to go to Jilly’s its just down the road, walked in there was like gentlemen uh..excuse me sir…can I have your.. finest…or like..give me a, give me a, like, give me some girl to give me a lapdance, and you know what, she’d probably…fuck me If I took her to like a private room…n’I know gave her some money, and they probably wouldn’t be expensive, she’d probably be riddled with disease? You know what’s a little… clap right? You know, just get some cream…

GARRY:
So why would you go to Jilly’s then?

HUMAN:
I don’t know…It was the closest thing I thought of.

GARRY:
Right.

HUMAN:
I don’t know cause like, if you go somewhere like more fancy, uh. like you go to the Brass Rail or something… Expensive. ….I can’t believe this is recorded.

END OF PART 1


On June 15th 2013, we at HUMANZOO hosted a fundraiser for our Production of Normal by Anthony Neilson. During the party, in a small room upstairs Garry conducted a series of interviews which were audio recorded. The recordings were then transcribed word for word.
This was one of the interviews.

 / indicates an overlapping of text

… indicates a pause or hesitation.

[NAME] indicates a name mentioned that has been censored for anonymity

GARRY:
Ok, I just want to get you to start off by describing your current emotional, what your current emotional state is.

Human:
Today?

GARRY:
Right now in this moment.

Human:
Um… Uh, my outlook is very positive. Uh I’m in a pretty good mood today because uh the reason I’m here is because [NAME] is showing art in a space I own and live in so we organized this art show with her and [NAME] and um three other artists. And it went really well last night and uh that was pretty exciting /so…

GARRY:
/Great. Congratulations. And she invited you here today.

Human:
Yes.

GARRY:
Great. Um, are you male or female?

Human: Male.

GARRY:
 Do you have any siblings?

Human:
Mhm.

GARRY:
 How many?

Human:
One.

GARRY:
One sibling, and are your parents still alive?

Human:
My mother is still alive.

GARRY:
Before your father passed away were they together? /Were they still married?

Human:
/Mhm, yeah.

GARRY:
Do you identify with the saying or the idea an ‘eye for an eye’?

Human:
No.

GARRY:
 Not under any circumstances?

Human:
Um, uh, maybe under some circumstances but as a general rule…

GARRY:
 Ok. Do you know your blood type?

Human:
Mmm no, I don’t think so.

GARRY:
Do you think it’s…

Human:
I think it’s type O, but I’m not sure.

GARRY:
Um, I’m wondering if you can describe what the word ‘normal’ means to you.

Human:
Uh… I guess normal means what you would expect in a given situation from a person or a thing uh and if something doesn’t correspond to your expectations then it wouldn’t be normal. In terms of, in social terms I find it a bit of a repressive term.

GARRY:
Mhm.

Human:
And I don’t gravitate to the concept of normal personally. /(Chuckles)

GARRY:
/Does that mean that you, does that mean that you wouldn’t ever describe yourself as ‘normal’?

Human:
I would (chuckles) I would never describe myself as normal.

(We share a laugh)

GARRY:
Um, what’s the earliest childhood memory or image that comes to mind?

Human:
Watching one of the moon landings on black and white on TV.

GARRY:
Do you remember how old you were?

Human:
No, and I’m not even 100% sure it’s my earliest memory, but it’s, because I thought, would I remember something from 1969? I was born in 1967, and I don’t think so. There was also one in 1971 I think and it was probably that one so I was three I guess.

GARRY:
And um, when you were a child what was your desired profession, or what did you want to be when you grew up?

Human:
I wanted to be a writer and I think everyone thought I was going to be a writer. Uh, and I still am to some extent but it’s not my dream anymore exactly.

GARRY:
What changed?

Human:
Um I don’t know, I mean I, I’m not, I don’t gravitate necessarily to doing things that people expect or want me do. That’s part of it to be honest /um and uh…

GARRY:
/mhm, mhm.

Human:
I don’t know I just discovered a lot of other things that I was interested in or had a /a talent for…

GARRY:
Right…

Human:
There are things that I didn’t think that I would be able to do professionally or in a serious, or publicly (inaudible) that I did turn out to be able to do.

GARRY:
 Would you describe yourself as defiant?

Human:
In some situations, yeah. Although not as a general rule.

GARRY:
Um, do you think it’s possible to justify murder?

Human:
Uh, well my immediate response is no. (chuckles)

GARRY:
Instinctually.

Human:
Yeah, um…

GARRY:
But rationally?

Human:
Well people justify war for example which I think could properly be seen as murder and say you know during World War II if Britain, if the allies decided not to respond to the Nazi threat then that obviously would’ve been worse (small chuckle) for the world.

GARRY:
Responding for the greater good.

Human:
Yeah. I mean certainly there are situations where people are gonna get killed that are justified but on a certain individual level I don’t.

GARRY:
What um, what scares you most about life?

Human:
Uh, mmm I don’t think I am a particularly fearful person.

GARRY:
If there’s nothing that comes to mind immediately that’s fine as well.

Human:
Um, uh well probably, huh I don’t know, yeah, (chuckles, then, to himself) what scares me most about life?

GARRY:
 If you think of it later you can come back to it if something else comes up. Um, if you were going to write a book, perhaps you already have, what would it be about?

Human:
Um, I, because I’m a writer I think about what I might write a book about. The idea I have that I might pursue uh in the foreseeable future would be to write about the indie rock scene in the middle of the last decade in Toronto, /various people I know, I wouldn’t be writing…

GARRY:
/Oh.

Human:
…a non-fiction book, it would be a /fictionalized account…

GARRY:
/Right.

Human:
…people touring in vans, being addicted to various substances.

GARRY:
Do you have any addictions?

Human:
Mmm no. Uh, well not to substances (chuckles) I’m trying to think if I’m addicted to anything else, I really like to do yoga every morning.

GARRY:
That’s a really great addiction. (We share a laugh)

Human:
I think so.

GARRY:
Um, have you ever suspected someone you know of having committing a very serious crime… such as murder, or rape, that kind of thing?

Human:
No.

GARRY:
No.

Human:
(Small chuckle)

GARRY:
Um, do you have any fetishes that you’d be willing to share or talk about?

Human:
Well, I’m not a particularly fetishy kind of guy. As these things go my ex works as the manager of the [local leather bar] in [the city], one of the managers , so it’s funny to go in there because they have puppy night and rubber night and (laughs) piss play and it’s fetish central so I’m pretty familiar with that world but…

GARRY:
But does it interest you at all?

Human:
There are certain things that interest me, bondage and stuff like that that to me is an extension of what I like, sexually speaking, I assume you’re talking about sexual fetishes.

GARRY:
I am. Or if there’s anything else that comes to mind I’m open to hearing about it.

Human:
Well nothing else comes to mind. I’m not, I’m not, I don’t tend to fetishize a lot of the conventional things, like leather doesn’t do anything for me, and other things are just things you do to have a good time, sexually, that society may see as fetishes but they don’t necessarily, though I can’t think of what I’m talking about right now. (Laughs)

GARRY:
Um, do you trust our legal system?

Human:
Not really.

GARRY:
If someone you knew and loved were committed of a very serious crime, such as murder or rape, armed robbery or assault, do you think that you could still love them.

Human:
Yeah… Mhm, yeah.

GARRY:
What does the word evil mean to you?

Human:
Sorry, let me go back and /qualify the last answer…

GARRY:
Sure, certainly, certainly.

Human:
…if it were something, to me murder, for example, to me murder and rape are not really in the same category.

GARRY:
 Sure.

Human:
If I knew somebody had committed a rape I would not want anything more to do with that, I think there are certain murders, I mean, things, killings that are qualified as murders that happen more or less accidentally, people get into a fight or whatever and somebody ends up, I can easily see that a lot of murders are not intended to happen as murders, and that would be in a different category for me.

GARRY:
Mhm.

Human:
I’ve never known of that to happen. (small chuckle)

GARRY:
/So…

Human: /(Two loud sneezes)

GARRY:
 …Bless you.

Human:
Thanks.

GARRY:
Do you think that um, let’s go back to the definition of evil, for you, does that mean anything?

Human:
Um, I’ve thought about it. And I’m not a person who tends to really, I haven’t sort of experienced evil and I don’t tend to, I’m not religious and I don’t believe in sort of black and white religious dichotomies (inaudible) the Christian, sort of, concept of good and evil. Um, I think a lot of what is called ‘evil’ is often committed in the name of good, for example with religions again and their various purges, evil, what is ‘evil’ for one group of people is just what another group of people wants.

GARRY:
Um, do you, do you think that, I guess in a more specific context, do you think that some one person can be born ‘evil,’ or be influenced by a social context within a society that deems one thing ‘evil’ and another thing ‘good’?

Human:
I tend to think not but I don’t know for a fact, it’s possible, um I think people are born with (sigh) well they may, you see they may not even be born that way I think your very early experiences with you parents or whatever can mold you like before you’re even one year old for example, I think early childhood is very important so people uh may be influenced to um or they may not get the love or whatever that they need to be sort of emotionally uh, I want to say conventional but sort of /emotionally healthy…

GARRY:
/Balanced?

Human:
Balanced yeah. Um and so I think what happens in early life is very important but also later life in terms of what people end up doing with what they’re given.

GARRY:
Right. Do you believe in karma?

Human:
(Chuckles) Uh, karma. I’ve done a lot of reading of eastern religions especially when I was younger, that’s where the yoga comes in. I think karma is a pretty good thing to keep in mind whether, the literal sort of spiritual sort of, whether it’s actually universal law or not is not something I can comment on because there’s no way to verify that but there’s plenty of evidence that karma is a good rule to live by day to day, if you do good things good things often come back to you.

GARRY:
So as a personal philosophy.

Human:
Yeah, or just as a rule of contact.

GARRY:
Yeah. That a good way of putting it. Gonna check the time… (pause) ok. I have an ultimatum for you. Would you rather lose all of your previous memories, or never be able form new memories?

Human:
I’d rather lose all my memories.

GARRY:
And still be able to form new ones. Um what about a superpower? If you could have any super power what would it be?

Human:
(Small chuckle) The first one that comes to mind is the ability to fly because that’s always so enjoyable in dreams but I don’t think it would be terribly useful. Um, I’m not sure I would really want a superpower. (More chuckling)

GARRY:
Not at all? Are you afraid of power?

Human:
Maybe I am to some extent, but I also just think that when things, when your life experience is disrupted by even, it could be something bad, it could be something good, it just could be quite difficult to deal with, like people winning the lottery…

GARRY:
Which is a blessing that people wish for for a long time.

Human:
Yeah, quite often a mixed blessing when it actually happens so I can’t yeah I can’t think besides flying, I can’t…

GARRY:
That’s fair, that’s a superpower. If you could ask ME any question right now, what would you ask me?

Human:
Um, well, what do you, what do you, what form is this project gonna take, that you’re working on gonna take?

GARRY:
Hm, and what makes you smile?

Human:
What right now?

GARRY:
Or one specific thing that makes you smile?

Human:
Things that I find absurd make me smile, like lately working on art when I do something, I created a sculpture that I decided not to put in the show because it was about the other artists and not about me and I didn’t have time to do a good job with it. I have this silver box which [NAME] has sat on.

GARRY:
Mhm.

Human:
Uh, (chuckles) which normally has a seat that moves back and forth when you flick on a switch it’s a very weird thing from like fifty years ago, and I attached a some silver ductwork to it, so it was kind of, so it makes this little rumbling sound, so I was, when I got that going for the first time for example it made me laugh because it was so absurd and ridiculous.

GARRY:
Great.

Human:
(Hearty laugh)

GARRY:
Um, do you think that you will actually go to see the HUMANZOO performance of ‘Normal’ in the Hamilton Fringe purely, not because I’m trying to convince you, but to find out what your feelings are at this point in time.

Human:
Sorry to find out, you want to know my feelings about…

GARRY:
 If you’re going to go see it.

Human:
I think I am I live [              ]. (Chuckling)

GARRY:
So it’s accessible.

Human:
It would be silly of me not to.

GARRY:
 Could you describe your current emotional state?

Human:
Yeah. I’m feeling good, I think I’m feeling better now than I was at the beginning of the interview because I like to talk about things that one doesn’t normally talk about.

GARRY:
Great.

Human:
We’re done.

GARRY:
We’re done. May I hug you?

Human:
Sure, I like hugging too.

GARRY:
Thank you very, very much.

GARRY:
Thank you, Garry.

Image
HUMANZOO started from an idea that spawned in conversation with Edward Charette, the conversation developed into a discussion about what would happen if we put a human being into a cage… or in this case an empty stage, with some sort of glass fourth wall, for a very long time, perhaps days. Someone would routinely and adequately feed them and they would have an outhouse or bathroom off stage. No props, nothing to do or interact with other than the idea that an audience is watching them.
Perhaps they would be given a character to start with, perhaps not, I imagine that character would likely crumble away in hours, but worth trying anyway. We would eventually be left with a pure human to watch. Ideally the stage would be separated with a glass, sound proof wall and the cage would be mic’d, so observers could hear the human, but would be unable to say anything to them. Eventually this would expand, and multiple exhibits could take place at simultaneously, much like a zoo. Further experiments could lead to having two humans in one cage (experimenting with different gender combinations),  or even a human and a monkey in one cage ( I’m sure we’d have some animal rights activists with a few things to say about that)  . The exhibit would have to be constant, no breaks, no limits, you could even come and watch the human sleep if you wanted to, without any judgement. 

We became intrigued by the idea so much, that it became the basis of what we believed theatre to be, or at least what we wanted to do as artists. ( I could be speaking for myself there) To reveal some magical expression of truth, some pure, universal expression of the human body and mind, stripped to its core, and to do that all for someone else to see.  
The story is the side effect of this phenomenon, the by-product of the brain. Despite this probably being the antithesis of everything I have ever learned about theatre, I don’t believe theatre to be about story telling. I’m not interested in telling stories or entertainment, I just want to try and understand why I’m (we’re) alive… what it is I’m (we’re) supposed to do. I want to investigate ideas and to experience as many points of view as possible, to ask an indefinitely open question, one without a right or wrong answer…instead, just another possibility.  
For now, it is enough just to keep looking for this meaning and that is what HUMANZOO is dedicated to, through whatever medium we believe will convey our idea at the time best, hopefully along the way creating new mediums.

So what’s next?
 

-Jakob Ehman

On June 15th 2013, we at HUMANZOO hosted a fundraiser for our Production of Normal by Anthony Neilson. During the party, in a small room upstairs Garry conducted a series of interviews which were audio recorded. The recordings were then transcribed word for word.
This was one of the interviews.

 / indicates an overlapping of text

… indicates a pause or hesitation.

Garry:
Beautiful. Ok. So I’d like to get you to start off by describing your current emotional state.

Human:
Antsy, little anxious. Not super great in being grilled, or in public situations.

Garry:
Both of which are happening right now. Absolutely, I understand. Is that constant or is that uh,  something that has only happened to you more recently in life?

Human:
No, comes and goes. /It’s irregular.

Garry:
/ Comes and goes. Right. Are you male or female?

Human:
Male.

Garry:
How many siblings do you have, if any at all?

Human:
3 half sisters

Garry:
And are your parents still alive?

Human:
Yes.

Garry:
Are they married?

Human:
No.

Garry:
Do you identify with the saying, “an eye for an eye?”

Human:
In certain situations.

Garry:
Do you know you’re blood type?

Human:
I don’t.

Garry:
What do you think it is, something rare or something common?

Human:
I think it’s rare but it’s more than likely it’s something common.

Garry:
[chuckle] And what does the word ‘normal’ mean to you?

Human:
It doesn’t… mean much actually… That’s super vague.

Garry:
Would you ever describe yourself as normal?

Human:
…Normalcy… is a subjective thing, yeah, I can’t really. I don’t know.

Garry:
For sure. Uhm. After I ask the question, this is one to just go with your instincts, or just go with whatever comes to mind. Earliest childhood memory.

Human:
I thought about this the other day… I’ll have to think about it for a second.

Garry:
Or an image / from your…

Human:
/Yeah…

Garry:
…childhood that you can remember very vividly.

Human:
This is pretty bad, but I think when I was three or four uh… there was some family conflict between my mom and dad. Ironically that was my first and only memory of my parents together. When I was three or four. That and or, when my mom left my dad … we were in a ferry in Istanbul crossing. That’s one thing I vaguely recall.

Garry:
Uhm, when you were a child, what was your dream profession? What did you want to be when you grew up?

Human:
I didn’t have a dream.

Garry:
Do you remember the first time you decided to go in a specific direction with your life?

Human:
I always wanted to do something good as in, didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes, I wanted to do something innocuous. I wanted to do something… uhm, sortof,  least offensive [laughs] Sort of the least / damaging to others.

Garry:
/Yes, inoccuous is the perfect word. And what is your current profession?

Human:
I’m a letter carrier.

Garry:
A letter carrier, yes.

Human:
And I was a music presenter which I will probably do again. / A concert presenter.

Garry:
/ You think youre going to go back to it, you’ll change your career in the future?

Human:
No no I won’t change, I’ll probably go back to doing it on the side. That what I was doing. As a side thing.

Garry:
When you were a child, would you say that you were popular, would you describe yourself that way, or say you had a lot of friends?

Human:
No. Well, I had friends but I wasn’t a popular kind of kid. I was kind of … the underdog kid yeah yeah.

Garry:
Do you still have a lot of the friends you had when you were a child?

Human:
I reconnected with them recently, you know, elementary school friends stuff like that, but…

Garry:
…What was the impetus…

Human:
… I wouldn’t call them friends, you know facebook kind of…

Garry:
Yes. Yes.

Human:
And when I went back to turkey we had a dinner and so on, so yeah, I have reconnected with some old friends… from 30 years ago.

Garry:
What does the word evil mean to you?

Human:
The first thing that pops in my head I guess is… folks who hurt beings who can’t help themselves, I guess that’s the first thing that pops in my head, you know.

Garry:
What does the word innocence mean to you?

Human:
Innocence?

Garry:
Yes. [a sound, like a baby crying, is heard in the background]

Human:
Does it exist? Beyond the [incoherent]

Garry:
That’s an excellent question.

Human:
Yeah, I’m not sure. Uhm, purity I guess. Not having been tainted. Probably beyond the age of 5 it doesn’t exist I guess.

Garry:
Do you think that everyone is born innocent or can someone be born in the way that you / describe evil.

Human:
/ I think people are born innocent, that’s my guess, that we’re socialized into becoming what we become mostly. I mean, there’s debate you know, there’s always nature, nurture debate you know.

Garry:
Of course, and you can only speak for yourself.

Human:
Yeah, and my experience is mostly from socialization.

Garry:
Do you think that you’ve ever met someone who was by your definition evil? Or come in contact with someone you think could commit evil acts?

Human:
Apparently I have. Yeah. This person I met online, I got to meet face to face, found out he was uh, peddler of child pornography.

Garry:
Wow.

Human:
It was [incoherent]

Garry:
A peddler not just a collector.

Human:
Not even just a collector which is bad enough but on top he was actually involved. It was a thing in the U.S. It was a big thing. And we found out /

Garry:
/ mhm.

Human:
…all of us on this Jazz board online, found out that this guy was… evil. Not to let him off the hook, or anything like that, he seemed like a nice guy, but I mean anyone who doesn’t you know take their own life, or go get some help in that situation… but then I suppose you can get into some you know, people are so deep in their addiction that you know they can’t bring themselves to that situation, I’m sorry, that’s where my limits of… [half-laughs]

Garry:
Absolutely. Did you ever see it… Did you ever get a clue that…

Human:
Zero.

Garry:
Zero clue.

Human:
That’s why it’s a shock…

Garry:
Do you believe in Karma?

Human:
Uhm, a version of it. Yeah.

Garry:
What goes around comes around…

Human:
To some degree…

Garry:
The energy you / put out…

Human:
/ yeah I mean I’m definitely not a religious person but I mean the way I live my life, for the most part I’d say I covered most of those [incoherent, laughs] …unintentionally.

Garry:
Yes. And uhm, what are you afraid of?

Human:
What am I afraid of? [The sounds of the garden party can be heard more distinct than ever before in the interview] Uhm. I guess losing control. You know, like  uh…

Garry:
In…

Human:
Losing total control…

Garry:
of your life?…

Human:
Aging, you know.

Garry:
Ah.

Human:
And I don’t think I have a fear of death so much as having to rely on others just, I kinda fear that.

Garry:
You consider yourself a very independent person.

Human:
Yeah, I mean I like to take care of myself as much as I…

Garry:
I have an ultimatum for you.

Human:
Uh huh.

Garry:
uh, would you rather lose all pervious memories, or, or, sorry, never be able to form new ones.

Human:
I think I’d rather lose my memories… / [incoherent]

Garry:
/ and continue…

Human:
Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Garry:
If you could have any super power what would it be?

Human:
Uhm. Learn to play instruments in five minutes.

Garry:
The super musician.

Human:
The super musician. Yeah.

Garry:
Would perfect pitch go along with that?

Human:
Eh, you would have to be I guess [laughs]

Garry:
You would have to be. Do you remember your first kiss? And what…

Human:
/I do

Garry:
… it was like. What was it like?

Human:
Uhm, bland, but I mean it was exciting at the same time.

Garry:
Do you believe in soulmates? Or destiny?

Human:
No.

Garry:
Neither?

Human:
We’re making it up as we go along.

Garry:
Hm. Uhm, If you could ask ME any question right now, what would it be?

Human:
Uhm…

Garry:
Any question at all.

Human:
Do you want a drink? [laughs]… … … You’re good.

Garry:
What makes you smile?

Human:
Many things. I think the easiest one is acts of kindness that are random acts of kindness, I guess that [incoherent]

Garry:
Tell me something you love about Hamilton.

Human:
It’s not the neck tattoos. I like that its real I guess. It’s not pretentious, its… but yeah.

Garry:
It’s not pretentious…

Human:
It’s not pretentious.

Garry:
That’s good. That’s not to be underestimated.

Human:
No. no. It’s close to Toronto [laughs] I used to live in Toronto /years ago.

Garry:
/ Yeah, it does have / it’s…

Human:
/ Yeah.

Garry:
…pretentious portions… I hear what you’re saying. Uhm. Do you think you will actually go and see HUMANZOO’s production of Normal at the /Hamilton Fringe.

Human:
/Absolutely. Yeah.

Garry:
You, If you, if you don’t think…

Human:
No no no. I will. We will.

Garry:
This is of course not me trying to like, / make sure that you do…

Human:
/No no no. but you…

Garry:
…we are trying to find out legitimately.

Human:
You might as well, you’re doing this, [laughing, incoherent]

Garry:
And I’m wondering if now, you could describe your current emotional state.

Human:
Uh, I’m a little more relaxed. You know I enjoyed the interview and you / know…

Garry:
/ok.

Human:
…a very pleasant experience that’s why I feel a little more relaxed.

Garry:
Which I of course wouldn’t be offended if it wasn’t.

Human:
[laughs] I’m not holding anything back! / Trust me I have no reason…

Garry:
[laughs] ok! I do. I do trust you. I very much trust you.

Human:
Ok.

Garry:
Great. So then, that’s it. So on behalf of HUMANZOO I thank you very very much. / May I hug you?

Human:
/ Great! Pleasure meeting you. Absolutely.

[Embracing is heard with chuckles and back pats]